Jens Pulver Interview

Former UFC Lightweight champion Jens Pulver recently moved over to WEC after his last loss to BJ Penn. Pulver sat down with Irish Whip Fighting and spoke about his next fight with Cub Swanson, the BJ Penn fights, and much more.

Irish Whip Fighting: First of all, you had to pull out of your WEC debut against Cub Swanson due to a serious knee injury. How's your knee doing?

Jens Pulver: Well my knee is alright. I tore it, which sucked, but luckily it's just the ligament, it's not the meniscus. So I don't need surgery, I just need time, you know? A lot of rehab, strengthen it back up, icing, just the pain in the butt stuff right now. And once I get that back, I should more than be ready by December 12.

IWF: When do you think that we can expect to see you back in the ring? Are you fighting at WEC 32 on December 12th?

JP: Well, one of the things was I want to fight this year. I don't want to wait. I don't know how many more shows WEC has [this year], and I hope they have one or two. But the goal is hopefully late November, early December, something like that. I don't want to wait till next year. I don't want to wait nine months in between fights, you know -- I can't stand that stuff. Hopefully the end of this year…just as soon as possible. I'm cleared -- I think I've got a physical that I get Monday to make sure I'm cleared for that date. So, hopefully the end of the year, around there.

IWF: Can you tell us a little about your childhood and how that helped you become a fighter?

JP: For me, obviously I've always wanted to be a fighter [and] I've always wanted to be in fighting. I loved boxing -- it was something that I always wanted to do. I remember people would ask me when I was a kid, 13 years old, "what do you want to do?" pretty much, and I'd say, "I want to be world champ". I loved wrestling, you know? But I guess the biggest thing for me is that I'm just not afraid to get punched; I'm not afraid to get hit. I grew up getting punched and hit. I mean I've never died from it.

It hurt worse mentally being around my father than the physical aspect -- physical beatings are nothing. They go away, they heal…the bruises, they're gone. I didn't get into fighting because I was abused. I just have always loved the whole aspect of being in a sport where it's all on you. It's all left up to you. Your hard work, your heart, your skill. I didn't like being on a team where maybe I went to bed early, maybe my diet was great, but the other 10 guys on my football team stayed out and partied and drank. Well, we would get beat. I didn't want to have to worry about 10 other opinions and ideas. I liked it [being] all about me, because I was an individual trying to be on a team rather then being on a team trying to be an individual.

IWF: Would you call your win against BJ Penn back in 2002 the biggest victory of your career?

JP: No, not even. It was a good victory. It was big for the moment. It was big defending the title. But…no… because for me it was just a guy coming up that wanted to take my belt that I just wanted to beat. I didn't know that later on it would turn into this. Winning the title was big; beating John Louis was bigger because I was hurt so bad. My fight with Stephen Palling was probably my favorite fight on the planet. It was my greatest fight that I've ever been in.

It was big beating [Penn], but it was just another title defense against an up-and-coming guy that everyone said was going to beat me. At the time I never knew it would turn into all of this. But was it my biggest fight? Absolutely not. It was a gigantic fight, don't get me wrong, but I don't look at it as my biggest fight. Winning that belt was huge and fighting Palling was huge. We [him and Palling] wailed on each other -- it was an unbelievable fight. The second fight with BJ was big because that was the cleanest I've ever been beat up. I've been caught with a shot trying to get down and I've had a few quick fights that way. But BJ just dumped on me and beat on me. He was getting that mount and getting me on the ground and just beating on me. But yeah, my second fight with him was big for me just because it was so humiliating -- it was just an ass-kicking.

IWF: Did you think Penn was an improved fighter from the last time you faced him?

JP: Oh of course I think he was more improved. The kid's been in there against a lot of people. When I fought him the first time he was young, he still felt bulletproof, or whatever else you want to call it. He hadn't been tested yet. So I could take him into deep water because he had never been there -- he was beating everyone in one round. The second time around, shoot, look at all the battles he's been in, look at the weights he's gone up, or the world titles he's fought for. He was a whole different person, and that was good. I knew he would be a different fighter. I didn't know if I was going to get a lazy BJ Penn, but everyone was asking me if I thought he'd make weight. I was like, "Yeah, he'll make weight…the kid hates me. He'll do it just because he hates me. Just because he wants to hit me, he's gonna make weight. He's going to come back and be the old BJ Penn that everybody’s been waiting and hoping to see…‘The Phenom’…or ‘The Prodigy’…whatever you call it.”

IWF: He held that choke for a LONG time. With ‘Babalu’ recently being fired for holding a choke too long, do you think that BJ should've received some punishment?

JP: You know, at the time I didn't, but I don't think Renato should've received any punishment either. I didn't even think about that. I guess it kinda seems ironic because I don't think Renato held the choke as long as BJ did. It doesn't matter to me -- I didn't see what BJ did as being wrong and I didn't see what Renato did as being wrong. I was the one who got caught in the rear naked choke. I can understand; it's been five and a half years that BJ's had to deal with this. And that's the thing, when you're in the cage and you're fighting somebody, especially when you don't like the person you're fighting,…like truly dislike the person, when you get that hold and you squeeze it, you just get this [self]-assured feeling…it's like…AHH…you just want to put that exclamation point on it. I just got exclamated on.

But I can't believe what's his name, Renato, got the boot. And I don't blame BJ. Shoot, if I had landed a choke on BJ, God would've had to come down and get it off probably, and that's the truth. It would've felt so good to have my arms around him choking the shit out of him…But I'm the one to fall into it, so he can do whatever he wants. It's like getting mad when someone celebrates…don't let them beat you if you don't want [them] to celebrate on you! [Laughs]

IWF: Are you and BJ cool now?

JP: I never spoke to him…I mean, I don't think we need to be pen pals or phone buddies or anything. I think we tried each other once; it's different directions. Truth be told, I look around hearing what everyone says, and I just think to myself… "Man I don't think we're supposed to be friends." [Laughs] I just don't see it, you know? Cause now we're even, 1-1. I hate it! Someone's got to be in front of the other one! I don't know what to think right now. I'm just going to do my fights, let my knee heel, and whatever happens will happen. I just don't like this being even stuff. Someone's got to be ahead of the other one. We'll have to figure something out…

…I'm trying to be gentle here, but I'm trying not to get anything started! [Laughs]

Yeah he beat me, but do I think I could do better? Do I think that the fight could've been different? Yeah, of course. It just sucks that we each have one win. But, he has the biggest win, so cool.

IWF: Would you ever consider a third fight against Penn?

JP: Oh my god yes. I'd give my right arm for a third fight. I've just got to figure out how to earn that third fight. But yeah, I would love to fight. And the thing is, even if he's at 155 [lbs.], I'll fight him at 145. I don't even care about the weight. I'm just going to focus on this fight with Cub, but in the back of my mind I have someone to gun for. I get to gun for BJ, who actually did kick my butt. It wasn't some freaky shock or anything like that, it was a genuine ass-whooping. Now I have someone to chase after, which is kinda what I've been waiting for for a while. Now I can chase after earning that shot to fight BJ again. I'll just have to beat everybody, so I can get my hands on him. It'd be cool.

IWF: After your last fight with Penn, you announced that you were going to drop down to featherweight and fight in the WEC. Why did you decide to do this?

JP: Well I weigh 150 pounds when I'm in shape. And it sucks, because the guys got bigger than me. I just had a good time when I fought at 143 [lbs.], and boxing at 147 [lbs.]. I was just thumping people down there. But there was never a financial opportunity or a show like the WEC out there for 145 pounders. So, I fought at 155 [lbs.], and 160 [lbs.] at PRIDE Bushido. Now there's no hit, it's not a step down for me. It's actually a step up for me to fight at 145 [lbs.] at WEC. There are a lot of 145- and 135-pounders there. Yeah, everyone can sit there and try to say it's a minor league or whatever. But, that's where all of the 145-pounders are. It's the premier spot for that weight class; there is no other spot for 145[-pounders]. And I can still stay close to my UFC family. When I asked them about it they said, "Yeah, no problem." I'm just excited, happy as can be. I get to help build the weight class, and it's just great.

IWF: I know we're all extremely excited to see you fighting again.

JP: Oh yeah man. It's going to be fun, really fun. Cub's trying to irritate me and get under my skin a lot, and he's doing a real good job of it. It's just going to be fun. I can't wait.

IWF: You're the UFC's first lightweight champion, and you technically never lost the belt. What does that mean to you as a fighter?

JP: It's a phenomenal feeling. It doesn't do anything because I don't think about it much anymore. I don't sit there and think "man I was the best once, so that makes my career good enough"…No, my career isn't good enough. I've got a lot of things that I want to get done. At the same token, it's nice to look at those belts. As I'm getting older I'm starting to realize that many people are going to go in and out of this game of MMA and they’re never going to be able to put a belt around them. So that means for one or two years I was the best in the world. When it's all said and done that's a pretty cool feeling. When I'm done I'll be pretty proud of it, but right now it's not something that I really think about. I don't sit there and think "what's wrong with me, I was world champion". But looking at my trophy case it's pretty cool to have four UFC titles.

IWF: Can you tell us a little bit about your experience working as a coach on The Ultimate Fighter?

JP: Well, I loved it. I'd do it again. If they ever asked me, absolutely. I had a great team; I had fun with those guys. It was great to sit back and watch Nate [Diaz] do his thing. I was proud of him…I stay in touch with my team. It was an absolute blessing. I had a great team, I had great support from all of the guys, and they made things a lot of fun. It wasn't a hard thing to do. Coaching those guys wasn't hard to do. I just had to be like "Hell no, I'm not getting in there. Let me tell you what to do." [Laughs] It was cool, you know? But yeah, I'd love to do it again; it was a lot of fun for me.

IWF: Who are some of the most promising fighters you worked with on the show?

JP: On my team of course Nate and Manny [Gamburyan] were tough. Nate…that kid is really tough. [Corey] Hill was great too. Cole Miller is a well-rounded athlete already. I think he's just got to trim up his heart and his courage a little bit; he needs to believe in himself. Once he does that, he'll be unstoppable. He's destroying people right now. He's got the attributes and the skills, but he needs to believe in himself. I like [Joe] Lauzon, my hat goes off to that kid. I didn't really respect him after catching me with that shot, but I didn't know him. But the more I watched him on the show, the more I respected him. I started thinking, man this kid's alright, this kid's cool. [Matt] Wiman -- I always got along with Wiman. [Rob] Emerson -- I always knew Emerson was a brawler. I'm not leaving anybody out; any one of them could prove me wrong. But just in my mind, those guys right there really stood out with me. Those are guys that it would be fun to hang out with or continue coaching. Any one of them I would take, but those guys just stand out.

IWF: Yeah man. I'd think that it'd be really cool to see these guys out there fighting. I know that Nate and Cole just got big wins at UFC Fight Night 11.

JP: Yeah man. When I see Nate and Cole do their thing, that's cool. These are eight fighters that I'll always root for. I'll root for any 155-pounder ‘cause I like to see great fights. But this is kinda like an extended family. I think they understand that if they ever need anything from me – ever -- I'd do it in a second. I guess I'm kinda like a proud uncle when I see these boys win. We all got to bond and do that crazy show together. I love seeing them win.

IWF: More and more fighters are getting caught with steroids lately. Why do fighters take them if they know they'll probably get caught?

JP: I don't know. Maybe ‘cause everyone else is doing it, maybe someone's telling them that it'll help, maybe someone's telling them that they won't get caught, or maybe someone's telling them that it'll help. I've never used that shit man, you know? I don't need it. More power to the ones who do, most power to the ones that don't. I do understand when you get older, to deal with injuries and stuff…medical reasons. But kids doing it at 22, 23, 25, 27…dude you're just robbing yourself. Build your body up, man. Get caught when you're 36-40! I'll understand then. I don't understand why a strong, young, gifted athlete has to sit there and pop the juice. When I was 25, I didn't sit there and drop a needle in my arm. I just don't need that, and I don't respect people that use it. It's not legal in this sport. You don't need it. Out train the guy, outwork the guy! If you lose, you lose. And I don't want to hear all that "It makes me better" shit, f-ing go on a diet! Pardon my language. Run! Eat! Work! This shit isn't supposed to be easy. If it was as easy as just buying it in a syringe, then how many more people would be a fighter? How many fake-ass fighters would we see down at the bar with their Tapout shirts saying that their time is coming. Shit, you know they don't train. If it was easy, all of those guys would be in there. I don't know man, I don't want any part of that.

IWF: You've been known for giving 110% all the time. Out of all of your fights, who has given you the toughest time?

JP: Me and (Stephen) Palling had a fight that a lot of people didn't see at 143 [lbs.]. It was the most painful thing I've ever been through in my life. I was out there getting hit with shots, and I was wishing that he would knock me out. The hits hurt so bad, I was like, "God, I wish that last one took me down." We went toe-to-toe for three rounds. It was very painful. And it was in Hawaii! You know the Hawaiian fans, don't come in there with some weak ass game, ‘cause they'll throw you out. They've always been solid. They may be on those islands, but their knowledge is disgusting. I was just like, “You know what? I'm just going to go out there and throw down,” even though I was fighting Hawaii's boy, Palling. Today he's my brother, period. I ended [up] being real, real, real good friends with the kid. But, we beat each other senseless.

But, it was weird, the other day we got to sit down and talk about the fight. I hadn't talked about it in about two years, and it was great to sit down with him and go over all of the stuff that had happened during the fight. But to me, that fight was very memorable. I gave it all to those Hawaiian fans, and to Palling too.

IWF: Well you did win the fight...

JP: Yeah true. I guess I can't sound hypocritical because I did win. But it's the worst beating that I've taken. If you're talking about a fight that I've learned the most from, then I've got to say it'd be my last fight with BJ, I hope. We'll see…

IWF: And, anything to say to your fans?

JP: Yeah of course. First and foremost, thank you. Don’t ever think that you can’t walk up to me and say hi. I’ll be pissed off if you don’t. Thank you is all I can say, but I can’t say it enough. The increasing amount and awareness of all of these fans is amazing. They’re not giving up on me, and I swear to God I’m going to give them something to cheer about. It’s coming, I swear it’s coming.


(Originally conducted for MMAMadness.com)